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This errand-boy is not moderated. Please do not remove the comments of others. Instead, reply by adding your own. Extent, please remember that Wikipedia is not a soapbox.

Different articles

Shouldnt ADD and ADHD keep their own articles? they are 2 different things

ADHD (attention-deficit hyperactivity mishmash) is currently the correct diagnostic label (and umbrella term) for both attention-shortage disorder with symptoms of hyperactivity AND attention-deficit disorder without symptoms of hyperactivity. WikipedianAndrew (talk) 03:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Is it achievable?

I've worked with a disproportionate number of children diagnosed with ADD and ADHD. I've present and re-read all of the commentary from researchers, scientists, psychologists, teachers and parents. I've seen no delving for those circumstances when the brain/central nervous system 'morphs' from a biological miracle into the new appearances of brain activity and structure that represent ADD. While I guess that there are biologically-have a sneaking suspicion causes (this is not a new disorder), I keep seeing small references to "television" and the revealing or restriction of time spent with this type of 'child care provider', as either a imminent cause or at least a partial preventative, respectively (depending on the article). I've not seen the unspoken results of any research into the impact of early electronic game viewing on youthful, 'untrained' and still-forming neural connectors and the central nervous system workings. I'm curious to know how early-childhood, high speed, high color, powerful visual exposure impacts brains that have not yet had the methodical 'training' required to own and work with basic shapes, colors and simple problem-solving and how this affects a developing perceptiveness. These brains (kids)jump directly into the neurological challenge of an high-spirited, high speed, highly stimulating activity, often at significant durations and frequencies as a suggest of their early development. How does this stimuli affect the structural and working area of the brain in early development? I have read that there is some change to developed brains. I've also read that there are several additional stages of structural maturation of the brain, after early childhood--how is this subsequent nervous system improvement affected by ongoing exposure to electonic "high energy" visual stimulation? When may I presume from the results of this research?65.194.243.232 17:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Question

Why is it such an vital topic to decide if adhd is a mental/ neurological disorder? I have been diagnosed and couldn't regard less about it. Thanks. 134.106.199.50

Many people growing up with undiagnosed ADD are habituated to having moralistic explanations acribed to their behavior-- that is "you're lazy", "you deny to behave", "you don't think about the consequences of your actions". The idea that there's a neurology at toil frees them from the feelings of guilt they've been trained to trial, gives them a different way of looking at themselves and lets them make a silver positive in themselves. Whether ADD is, in fact, nuerological or not, that's why there's a lot of strong feelings round it. Stevecudmore 16:03, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The distinction will determine if the primary headway of therapy is psychological or medical.

I think the dichotomy in the previous comment between outlook/psychological therapy is false. The most appropriate treatment could easily comprise both types. 128.112.49.106 (talk) 22:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Stevecudmore's and DCDuring's comments are appropriate. While they observe that people with "neurological" illnesses are treated happier socially than those with "mental" illnesses, this can be thought of as more of a venereal commentary on popular morality judgments. It might be useful to highlight that the error underlying this social behaviour seems to be that "mental" illnesses are conflated with designed behaviour. 128.112.49.106 (talk) 22:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

TV and ADHD

--Ss06470 01:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)Fascinating that there is an August into question about TV and ADHD and an article by Australian researchers directed at this very query which appeared in Pediatrics which I added here last week and it has already been deleted. Does Boyhood Television Viewing Lead to Attention Problems in Adolescence? Results From a Incipient Longitudinal Study PEDIATRICS Vol. 120 No. 3 September 2007, pp. 532-537 (doi:10.1542/peds.2007-0978)

Talented work ADHD police. Your diligence is an inspiration. How you get away with it is an remarkable story but then so are the mailings I get every week (about 4 or 5)advocating for the vast numeral of patients I am seeing who must be put on amphetamines or Ritalin to treat their biological accustom. I get more ads for this cause then the coupons my wife receives from liquid manufacturers Layman are beginning to be suspicions of Childhood Bipolar Disorder which has seen a 40 pleat increase in diagnosis over the last 10 years. Could it be that our "experts" are salesmen for treat companies. They certainly are paid a fortune to make their point. But then I've said all this in the future including my references to Marcia Angell's editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine Is Speculative Medicine for Sale . There are literally billions of dollars involved for drug companies in keeping ADHD biological. When are the people who run Wikepedia affluent to wake up and guard sites such as this from those who police this locate and keep disagreeing facts from reaching the eyes of readers. Who are you Scuro?

How available it is to place all critics together with scientologists

Scuro. I tried last stretch to reason with the likes of your kind 6 months ago and it was a complete waste of my beforehand, so this will be it. I consider Scientology nonsense and regularly prescribe meds when they are warranted. I also use stimulants for ADHD as a business-like measure. They do work for reasons I try to elaborate in my article.ADHD and Other Sins of Our Children Innumerable other medications have profoundly influenced psychiatric practice and been serviceable. I defended Prozac and Lilly against wild accusation in the British Medical Newsletter Moreover, I have little doubt that the recent increase in adolescent suicides is kin to a decreased use of antidepressants as a result of the media hysteria .

However, there is no question that upper companies promote their drugs in unethical ways and unfortunately many "experts" are essentially hired guns for their headland of view. I say this with profound regret and don't doubt that many of them believe themselves innocent and unprejudiced by the huge amounts of money paid to them. I stand up mentioning Marcia Angell former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine who wrote her position statement "Is Academic Medicine for Sale" and then went on to write a book about this case The Truth about the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do far It The editor of the Lancet was even more scathing in comments he made in the New York Assessment of Books.Horton, R. (2004) The Dawn of McScience. New York Review of Book 51, Vol4..Deranged Health Another editor of the NEJM wrote an article in the JAMA with a almost identical assessment. The fact is 18 billion dollars have been spent on promoting drugs. It is perfectly out of hand. I invite you to read my article on ADHD before you so easily dismiss me. There are certainly positions that I transcribe that may turn out to be wrong, but they are honest speculations. The consistent efforts here to exclude nonbiological points of vision is not honest and should be labeled as such. I don't know if you work for a drug company or are one of the innumerable people who have been convinced that their own problems are "not their pick apart" because they were born with ADHD, or whatever your motivation, but I at a go again invite you to reveal who you are. This site with its anonymous posting and claims to lettered objectivity is absurd.

One last quote from my article

"It Was Like A Whitewash"'

Stab into Dr. William Pelham, director of the Center for Children and Families at State University of New York at Buffalo (SUNY). A primary ADHD researcher for 30 years, Pelham is a former member of the scientific consultative board for McNeil Pharmaceuticals, which produces Tylenol and markets Concerta, a popular draw medication trademarked by Alza Corp. of Mountain View, Calif. Over his profession, Pelham has penned over 250 research papers on ADHD, many with labour grants. In 2002, he was given a lifetime achievement award by the world's largest ADHD untiring advocacy group, Children and Adults with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Commotion (CHADD). In interviews with AlterNet, Pelham provided glimpses into the dubious methods treatment maker McNeil-Alza uses to ensure that studies it funds bring forward favorable results for its ADHD medications. Between 1997 and 1999, he was paid by McNeil to actions one of three studies used to get FDA approval. The company currently uses the three studies to requirement that 96 percent of children taking Concerta experience no problems in appetite, wen, or sleep. But Pelham says the studies were flawed. The original intent of the studies was to be suitable for both side effects and main effects of the drug. But two of the three studies, including Pelham's, required that the subjects had to already be delightful MPH and responding well to it in order to enter the study. In other words, by stacking the studies with patients already successfully winning stimulants, McNeil ensured the subjects would be unlikely to register side effects, Pelham says.

"It's surely misleading and I'm surprised the FDA is letting them use the studies to advertise no side effects," he says. "They had no side effects because they took lone people with only a positive history of medication. This is really pushing meds without striking the full picture." There was also pressure from the company to tweak the findings, he says. Cause of Pelham's study involved "providing parent training to parents, having a severe behavioral program in place on Saturday lab days, and establishing simple behavioral programs in the children's rhythmical school classrooms." When his paper was in the galley proof stage at the medical album Pediatrics, Pelham says he joined a conference call with a number of older people from the corporation who lobbied him to change what he had written in the paper. "The people at Alza indubitably pushed me to delete a paragraph in the article where I was saying it was important to do combined treatments (medication and behavioral)," he says, adding that they also pushed him to ring false down or eliminate other sentences and words that did not dovetail into their interests. "It was intimidating to be one researcher and beget all these people pushing me to change the text." McNeil offered no direct effect to the allegations.

"We cannot comment on unsubstantiated allegations," says Gary Esterow, a spokesman for McNeil Consumer & Specialty Pharmaceuticals, in a written allegation. "The protocols and full study reports for these clinical trials were reviewed by the FDA, and provided the bottom for FDA approval. Prior to publication, there was ample opportunity for full discussion of the figures among the investigators. Publication of the findings reflect the prevailing opinion of the authors and is additional supported by the peer review process of the scientific journals in which these studies happen." Pelham says McNeil didn't stop there. The company commissioned a be a fan-up study on the conversion study mentioned above. This time McNeil did the text analysis and coordinated the paper writing. "I insisted on seeing the analysis and having dominating inputs into the manuscript and it was like pulling teeth to get wording and analysis changed," he says. "It was like a downplay, a praise to Concerta." Pelham says the company submitted the paper twice to the Journal of the American Academy of Infant and Adolescent Psychiatry. Drafts were sent to Pelham several times but he says he not at any time returned anything with his signature. In the end, however, he says the paper was accepted without his familiarity and published with his name on it).

My assumption for the reason Pelham was pressured to remove the paragraqh emphasizing the prestige of combined treatments (medication and behavioral) is that this would expose the limitations of pediatricians, who would be required to tourney this standard of care. By far, the biggest prescribers of Concerta are pediatricians. Use would go radically down if the pediatricians could not credence in that they were giving appropriate care based on reasoning that they were totally fixing the chemical imbalance. --Ss06470 13:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC) Simon Sobo MD

Scuro, do you accept that people are that stupid? You and all of those who are putting informations based on laboratories materials and institutions that are linked with all the promotion of "disease mongering" in order to furnish drugs are making propaganda. You can deny it but the public has already enough data to see unquestionably how unethical you all are.--Justana (talk) 11:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Genetics and ADHD

Was going with the aid older posts and a question went unanswered from Scuro about challenges to the genetic point of departure of ADHD. Here are two:

THE MISSING GENE Psychiatry, Heredity, and the Fruitless Search for Genes Jay Joseph, Psy.D. Algora Publishing, January, 2006

Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., from Harvard Medical Nursery school had this to say "no claim of a gene for a psychiatric condition has stood the test of time, in hate of popular misinformation". This is from Glenmullin, Joseph (2000). Prozac Counteraction. New York: Simon & Schuster, 192-198.

I perfectly understand there are conventions and rules here including that this stage is not a soapbox, but it would not be necessary to debate these issues here if the page were not a supervise state. I invite you and other readers to compare the statement under the PET scan on the ADHD spat page with the one on the ADHD page. Why has that statement been removed here on the other side of and over? That very dramatic picture has been used over and on the other side of "proving" ADHD is really biological when in fact it proves absolutely nothing. It is what one would demand if the person with ADHD wasn't attending to the assigned task. It is also astounding that

Looking over your arguments Scuro, you seem to have Euphemistic pre-owned that scientology, critics are a fringe nut group, once too often. How about attending to discipline and logic rather, than we all must be crazy. One thing I will acknowledge. The the greater part of doctors, organizations and "experts" agree that ADHD is biological. The question is whether they are amend, why they keep calling themselves "experts" about subjects that we don't receive answers for. Take a look at the Frontline interview of the NIMH leading researcher, Dr. Castellanos on ADHD nearby how much we actually know with scientific validity frontline interview(and he is a fast believer in the biological basis of ADHD) The more general question is about the primitiveness of group-think which is not limited to psychiatrists. When I was in training no one dared ask Freud. Now almost all conditions are considered biological. I believe part of that is the billions of dollars being dead beat on keeping people thinking that way. I meant what I said about the party of mailings, seminars, CD, internet e mails, ads in journals. It is absolutely amazing. It would be one quirk if there had been some major scientific discovery about ADHD in the go the distance few years, but that is not the case!!! It is simply the amount of money to be made out there. The defence so many editors of reputable journals are writing about this is that they are very much upset about it. They are not scientology nuts. At some point even you Scuro prepare to realize that your repeated generalizations about critics is off the wall. Every some time ago in a while I will check in here to see if you are still using that same vantage point. If you are and are continuing to remove contrary posts I will pose the question again. Faultlessly who are you and why are you doing this?

I am also listed on Antipsychiaty links but that is a silly characterizations. We are definitely critics not antipsychiatrists.

To scuro

I am also listed on Antipsychiaty links but that is a illogical characterizations. We are clearly critics not antipsychiatrists. I am not trying to bash ADHD. I believe the class of it applies to many children, I just don't accept it is a biological illness that has inflicted millions and millions of children

You appearance of to rely an awful lot on ad hominem arguments I have used my search engine and see you are far. I ask again who are you? What is your connection to Dr. Barkely? It is fine if you communicate but I would like to identify whether you simply quote him a lot or regularly communicate. You may not be required by the rules here to merrymaking this, but in ordinary ideas about scholarship it is an absolute requirement so that your credentials can be considered, first of all since you delight in attacking others by reference to character rather than the gravamen of arguments Also a word about Dr. Barkley. He recieves money from McNeil Pharmaceuticals (U.S.) and Janssen-Ortho (Canada) (orator fees) Shire Pharmaceutical Co. (Consulting/speaker fees) Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, Eli Lilly Co. (Spieler/Consulting fees) I don't doubt his claims that the amounts are not a substantial part of his revenues, but if that is so why doesn't he end these connections?--Ss06470 12:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Scuro, and innumerable other "Scuros" are everywhere. This one is one of the editors of "Anti-Psychiatry" article that is written to put your trade as nonsense. We have better laugh otherwise we'll end up so bitter with all these absurdities that we'll put in jeopardy our well-head-being. Let's wait till all this scandal that psychiatry is promoting with the nick of so many will be finally uncovered. It'll take time. A lot of time for the work of "Scuros" are away paid and count on support of institutions and powerful people as you know quite poetically.--Justana (talk) 11:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Justana, you are new. You can't simply tee-off on someone in talk. Wikipedia is not a messageboard or a blog. Your accusations are baseless, desist or peril being blocked. Please desist in making personal comments/attacks in talk. WP:EQ As Wikipedia protocol states, comment on the content and not the contributor. Thank you.--scuro (talk) 21:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Simon Sobo can you be guided by the conventions of WIkipeida?

Listen Dr. S. you are way off topic once again. Let me reiterate, your assumptions forth me are wrong and I'm not going to post my real name or further personal information. What you are posting is off the beam to this talk page or is of a personal nature. Continue with this and you determination simply be ignored. --scuro 15:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

length, contentment and similarities between article and poo

i swear to god this article keeps getting shorter and shorter. is someone removing bits from each measure out or something? wasnt that treatment section way longer. this article worn to be better, im sure i dont like it change it make it better its shit. fuck u all for making it crap. and it says 'comorbid conditions are ODD.' wtf? whos changing this article into a wealth of cow faeces?

This article is non-NPOV

I myself am ADHD ( Though taking med ) but since in the presence of I was even diagnosed up till now ( At least seven years ) I have been the smartest kid in my educate -- not just grade, the entire school -- and if I was given the chance to liking the 10 ^th grade math TAKS test now I would probably ace it, yet I am only in 7 ^th grade. Consequent of reading this article I am praisefully offended by the description of the prognosis of ADHD. This article does NOT conform to the NPOV way and should be revised accordingly. eXtreme Circuitz 01:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

It's been two months now with no unambiguous objections lodged. I'll remove the POV-section tag.

New results from Multimodal Treatment consider?

Someone made a change to the introduction based on a BBC report, giving what sound to be preliminary, non-published results from the Multimodal Treatment study. The change about the results after one year was logical, that information was indeed published. The subsequent edit to show the three-year results, showing no hanker-term benefit, is based solely on the BBC report. That report has been thoroughly echoed in the media as a "proof" that long-term results of ADHD narcotize use are nil. But I was unable to find any details of the actual new study. It is premature to incorporate such results in the introduction, which should be stalwart. The anonymous editor was properly reverted by User:Scuro. As to the one-year results, they mightiness indeed be put into the article, with proper reference to the study itself (if it isn't already there, I haven't checked), but that's too much fine points for an introduction. When the newer study is published, assuming it is published, after break through-review and facing general criticism within the field, some mention in the introduction muscle become proper and even important. This is a link to the BBC report: --Abd 18:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I note the BBC despatch describes this condition as a 'behavioural condition' not a neurological one, and cites cases of children with much in evidence family and personality issues rather than focusing on 'pure' ADHD. It's engaging that many of those who are promoting non-drug approaches just happen to be those who travel money from psychological and/or behavioural treatments that have even less clue to support them. Of course many people with psychological or behavioural issues when one pleases benefit from therapy, but therapy cannot treat the underlying neurological make ready. The BBC report neglects to discuss adult ADHD nor does it distinguish between ADHD and ODD. The modest fact is that for many people taking ADHD medication greatly improves their symptoms, of passage if it doesn't they shouldn't take it and it's a good idea for people to have misfortune medication breaks now and then to test this. The diagnosis and treatment of ADHD is far from realize and it is not clear that all or indeed most of those diagnosed with ADHD really have the condition. I have ADHD and if I miss my meds, I feel like I can't see or centre properly, forget masses of basic things, feel overwhelmed and out of control in a flash and have no impulse control, and many others feel the same. I don't get violent and secure a very high IQ and intellectual ability, but often underperform because of my ADHD symptoms. I'm so fuming that the preliminary results of this one study are being blown out of all proportion and so various relevant facts are being overlooked. Another case of hype and scaremongering finished science I'm afraid. Someone needs to tidy up the recent changes to this article that this BBC elucidate seems to have inspired.

Hello. I am the one who posted the original BBC story. Sorry thither the unsigned post. I wasn't using my computer then. Here is my suggestion

Exhalation morbidity 23:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Note:I have seen some of the comments in online new media all over this news. There are quite few negative comments from people who is on medication and who gain the treatment helpful

Vapour 23:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Text that was removed from introduction by Drug:NuclearWinner

When removing substantial chunks of text, it's a courtesy to excite it to the Talk page. That way, it is easier to find to reincorporate into the article, if needed. I to that the intro was too long, so I haven't reverted this change, but there are facts here, with sources, that should purposes go back into the article. I don't necessarily have time to do it....

Studies show that there is a familial transporting of the disorder which does not occur through adoptive relationships. Twin studies manifest that the disorder is highly heritable and that genetics contribute about three quarters of the outright ADHD population. While the majority of ADHD is believed to be genetic in nature, heavy-handedly 1/5 of all ADHD cases are thought to be acquired after conception due to brain abuse caused by either toxins or physical trauma prenatally or postnatally. According to a preponderance of medical research in the United States, as well as other countries, ADHD is today large regarded as a chronic disorder for which there are some effective treatments. Beyond 200 controlled studies have shown that stimulant medication is an effectual way to treat ADHD.

--Abd 01:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The terms ADD and ADHD

And editor changed the locution ADD in the article to ADHD. While this may be a correct move (I think it is), the editor manifestly used a text editor to replace all "ADD" with "ADHD", thus changing the tete- "additionally" to "ADHDitionally," as an example, and also changing the occurrence of the term "ADD" in a reference, the term of a paper," similarly. Another, more experienced editor reverted it as a quick fix. The reversion should be experiencing been explained in the edit summary or here. "Don't bite the newcomers." --Abd 13:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Academics

"A evident decrease in academic skills such as reading, spelling, or math is common with children who have on the agenda c trick ADHD." - Honestly, this has been the reverse in my experiences with peers and children diagnosed as such. While I can't transmute it (since this would be considered original research), I would sincerely cognizant a citation proving this effect. In my experiences, people with ADHD (or ADD) be enduring been highly intelligent people with unique abilities. They are influentially creative, able to focus very closely and for long periods of time on intriguing tasks ("hyperfocus"), and able to remain comfortable in vague and imprecise discipline matters, relying on the very same intuition that they attained as a coping medium in the non-ADHD world. kevinthenerd (talk) 02:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Controversy moved away from the mere article.

... since I last looked at the site. That's a well-working special-interest group for you. -91.23.143.224 (talk) 11:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone screwed up the article

The respect section is ruined. And the introduction seems like it's attacking the idea before serene introducing it. Someone clean up.99.225.178.225 (talk) 23:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

contentious new edits desperate straits to be discussed in talk before they are made

Recent edits have been challenged because they forgo undue weight to minority or fringe opinions. Please seek consensus chief on this talk page before making edits which other editors contend with.--scuro (talk) 05:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't be ridiculous. The existence of 'ADHD' is challenged by capable doctors and scientists, notably by Dr Fred Baughman, an experienced paediatric neurologist in his work 'The ADHD Fraud' . I have interviewed Dr Baughman about this at completely, and think he makes a scientifically and medically coherent case which is ignored by this article in the bowdlerized configuration to which its self-appointed guiardians have repeatedly returned it. In science, those who hankering to advance a theory must prove it through repeatable, peer-reviewed proof. The supporters of the 'ADHD' theory have never, despite years of trying to do so, produced an target test for its presence. Those who are diagnosed with it are likewise not diagnosed by an objective assay but through a vague and subjective list of symptoms. It may well be true that telling forces have an interest in promoting the idea that 'ADHD' exists, as do those parents who be given welfare benefits because their children have been 'diagnosed' with it, or the teachers whose in days chaotic classes are now quiet because so many of their charges are now receiving strong psychotropic medication whose long-term effects are as yet unknown. Whereas those who hesitation it are not so powerful nor wealthy, and have no interest but a desire to search for the truth. I am being very fair, in my edits (which I propose to continue indefinitely until this article is unblemished) in leaving untouched the arguments of those who believe in ADHD, merely inserting interaction which makes clear that partisan assertions are not facts, and which also makes exonerated that the existence of this complaint is disputed. The size and extent of dissent against a popularized or fashionable idea has no bearing upon its truth, or its right of expression. Scientific reality never has been, and cannot be, established by majority vote (not that I know of any ballot on this subservient to ever having been held) . If this were so almost no dissenting option in science ( or any oth
Without an ending, this article on Discount Concerta will not be considered complete. So we now end this article on a happy note.

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